Unless you’ve been living under a rock you’ve probably heard about Chick-Fil-A’s statement regarding their belief that marriage is meant to be between a man and a woman, only. Apparently in certain areas of the country this is big news. “How intolerant?” “How ridiculous?” “How un-American?”
In other areas…like the Bible-belt… the questions are more: “How inspiring?!” or “How refreshing for them to take such a stand?!” The restaurant’s stand caused people to flock to their favorite chicken chain in droves. Their store here in Jonesboro, AR has lines like I have never seen. I expect to see people wearing stickers today that say “I went to Chick-Fil-A today! Did you?”
Yet, in all this hustle and bustle I find myself asking a different question:
How effective is this?
Don’t get me wrong: if you went today I am not judging you at all. I love CFA. I appreciate their company culture; plus, I love their food! And their service is great too! It makes me smile when they ask if they can “refresh my beverage” and tell me it’s “their pleasure” to serve me and others.
But I can’t help but wonder if the mass hysteria at CFAs all over the country is sending the wrong message. Let’s be honest here: if droves of people are lined up to the point their lines are wrapping out and around the restaurant or their cars are lining up out of the drive-thru and into the streets, then a message is definitely being sent to the public at large and to the gay population specifically. It seems to say: “We don’t approve of you, your lifestyle and your choice. That’s right, I said choice. We. Do. Not. Approve.” I think that’s the wrong message to send.
In fact, I am even more alarmed because I think people realize that is the message they are sending and they believe it is helpful and effective. I disagree.
I won’t beat around the proverbial bush. I don’t believe gay marriage is right in the eyes of God. I don’t believe it’s good for society at large. And I do believe that homosexual unions dishonor God. But JUST AS MUCH, I believe that God is dishonored by my behaviors, thoughts and actions sometimes too. And I am a heterosexual that is a happily married monogamist.
So here are few things we can learn about ourselves and our culture from today’s response to CFA Appreciation Day.
#1. Many Christians like being known for what they are against.
People are proudly flaunting how busy their local CFA is. They are posting pictures on social media and calling liberals to take notice of the support as if there are actually voting machines at the register to vote against Obama. I understand that some, if not a lot of this support stems from wanting to defend their beloved local CFA franchise and employees. I get that. But we must understand that we are sending a message to an unbelieving and more secular world around us that we heterosexuals will not tolerate such ridiculous and sinful behavior. If only we fought our own sinful desires as hard as we fight theirs.
This is a struggle for me as well, but we Christians must desire that people know Jesus more than they know what we stand for. Knowing him will lead to knowing the rest. We need to stand for what we believe is holy and good but we do so in grace and truth. I always remind myself: it was the humble sinners who loved Jesus. Those that loved evil and those that were religious couldn’t stand him.
#2. We show ourselves to be self-righteous.
I say “we” because both sides of this argument are acting self-righteous. You don’t even have to speak to be self-righteous. It’s a heart condition. It is one that each and every human defaults to. Whether a person is standing in line for an hour for a chicken sandwich or someone has been boycotting CFA since the news of the marriage statement, we are showing our deep desire that the other side see how wrong they are and repent. We are more concerned with changing people’s minds on the other side than we are changing their hearts.
#3. Many Christians have forgotten the cure to ALL human rebellion.
As I mentioned earlier, even as a heterosexual I dishonor God more than I care to admit. I hate it when I do! But it doesn’t change the fact that my heart, at times, still wants to rebel against the boundaries God has ordained for our protection and our joy. When I sense that I want to engage in behavior, actions or thoughts that dishonor God it’s not a boycott, a lobbyist group or beloved corporation taking a stand that will turn my heart back to God. No, in that moment I need a reminder that I am now God’s adopted, prodigal son. I must remember this is only possible through my faith in Jesus who took my place on the cross, dying the death I should have died for my rebellion against God and for worshiping created things instead of the creator. His subsequent resurrection offers me life and joy all by his grace and not by my works. That news causes a course-correction in the heart of a Christian and life-course-correction in the heart of someone who is still rebelling against his or her creator.
We must spread the good news of Jesus’ offer of salvation to everyone: gay and straight. People of both sexual preferences equally need it and Jesus loves both so we should love both as well.
I believe this approach would be effective in showing that both gay and straight people have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Yet, it would also be effective in showing that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly. That message would be effective. Just look at it’s 2,000 year-old track record.
Intersection: Have you ever felt it easier to fight other’s sinfulness more than your own? How could the gospel of Jesus help you with that?
Gospel + Intersections 
I have read many blogs on this, and I find that this one is the best one I have read so far. I like your approach to handling this situation, well done.
Blessings
Greg
Greg,
Thank you for your kind and encouraging words! I appreciate it.
Nathan
Reblogged this on Believing God Today and commented:
This is the best article on CFA I have seen yet. Instead of choosing up sides or being snarky…this article is being fair. Focused on Jesus and the fact that we ALL sin and Gos does not like any of it!
I think you overlooked a point. Today i supported the right to speak up for God authored marriage. To say what God says. To stand up for righteousness.
Chris,
Thanks for your comment. I see where you are coming from. I just don’t believe that today’s response by Evangelicals was really helpful in regards to standing up for righteousness. This is not a debate within the church, really. This was a culture war between secular society and Evangelicals. Everyone knows we stand for heterosexual marriage already. Today wasn’t dealing with the root of the problem (sin and need of grace & acceptance) it was dealing with a symptom ( gay marriage rights).
Nathan, The major thing I think you miss is that a Christian brother and his business was unfairly attacked without provocation. In the persecuted church, unity helps prevent further abuse. Here’s the thing, the gay movement will always hate us because no matter how much we pander, at some point, we will come to the truth that homosexuality is wrong. But this wasn’t about homosexuality. It was about those spouting tolerance bullying those who remain quite for fear of offending. Cathy and Chick-Fil-A had done nothing wrong, and were attacked on several fronts. Are we a wimpy church that just sits at home and says, “I don’t think that’s right, but I don’t want to offend because it hurts my message.” Christ and the money changers proved their are times to step up and confront abuse. Have you done much research into the persecuted church? Many of the faithful who lived in Germany or in what would become the Eastern Bloc, lamented later, after their persecution, about their failure to stand up to the facists that started the war for fear of destroying their message. We are fighting a similar evil and it’s bigger than the homosexual movement. I do agree that too often the church turns to politics and not prayer. However, there are moral messages we cannot back down on. What will you do when someone asks you point blank about your feeling on homosexuality? Are you going to dodge around the issue; tell them they might make heaven; or is hell and sin left out of your gospel? I feel your message may have been influenced by fear of appearing to much like a stuffy Christian, that you decided whether you agreed or didn’t agree long before you really prayed about it. I really searched the Lord for this because I felt strongly that someone needed to stand up. If you didn’t go to Chick-Fil-A, there weren’t signs or anything against gays. There were people in line ordering food. That’s it! Luke 6:26 says “Woe to you when the world speaks well of you for that is how your fathers treated the prophets.” This is a concern for our church; are we too afraid of our own message that we don’t support it publicly? Are we too afraid of offending people that we ignore the bullies when they attack another over moral and Biblical truth? Even Jesus said that there came a time that the disciples needed a sword. At some point, we will need to stand for moral and Biblical truth. Now, in the same chapter is the famous turn the other cheek passage, so I agree there are times not to respond. Essentially, we must pick our battles carefully. Now, I know everyone is called to address the problem different ways and I appreciate your thoughts and concerns; and maybe your job to this was to address concerns. Nonetheless, I think all of us, including yourself, do need to be careful about your #2- being self-righteous. Thanks for the thoughts and the posts. God Bless,
Dustin
Amen! Dustin
Dustin:
1. How many LGBTQ friends do you have? They don’t hate the Church because we’re “right”. They hate us because we’re cruel and judgmental and don’t look anything like the Jesus of the Scriptures. CFA Day is a perfect example of that.
As I’ve pointed out in a couple of other comments, Christians don’t have the right of free speech. We have only the right to die, to give ourselves up for our enemies (the way Jesus gave himself up for us).
1. Dan Cathy absolutely blundered. He’s a CEO of a company that operates in the public, secular sphere and he made a statement that (in addition to being ignorant) would offend tons of people he tries to sell sandwiches to. He drew a line in the sand then leaned on Evangelicalism to rescue him when people got mad at him.
And like good little cows (okay sheep, but I wanted the pun), we herded into the restaurants in droves.
And instead of modeling the self-sacrificial love of Jesus, we shored up our battle lines, sharpened our swords and got ready for a fight.
That is 1,000% the opposite of the way Jesus models for us. Shame on us.
Nathan,
I had more respect for your views until you questioned how many gay friends I have, as if that would change my perspective. Does the fact that you may have more gay friends then I do change your gospel message? What does it matter? Let me ask you; how many unsaved friends do you have? It doesn’t change the message. And unless you leave the aspect of Hell out of your doctrine, then you will offend all of your gay friends with the fact that they are not leading a lifestyle consistent with scripture. (Well, that is unless you don’t think the Bible preaches homosexuality is a sin.) My point is that no matter how many gay friends I have, it doesn’t change the fact that the Bible clearly shows that homosexuality is a sin.
Also, where are these Christians who are “cruel and judgmental”? I live in California (Not certain where you live) and so I and many of my friends have gay friends. No, they don’t simply “know a gay person,” they are friends with them. As mentioned, I have several. We interact, laugh, joke, go places, and life lives as friends. Nevertheless, most know where I stand, and yet they don’t disown me; they don’t believe I’m mean or hate filled. So again, where are all these “cruel and judgmental” Christians? Obviously you aren’t one all though you used the word “us”. The gay community does not hate the church because we are “cruel and judgmental”, that is their perception or our actions. The Church has opposed gay marriage, the church has supported gay recovery programs, the church has called homosexuality a sinful life, just as adultery and disobeying of parents. (Romans 1) So, in the same manner, gay people don’t hate Christians, and Christians don’t hate gay people. The Gay Community hates the Church not simply because of these ignorant Christians, but because of the absolute nature of the homosexual sin. But this isn’t exclusive to gays, but to adulterers, liars, and kids who disobey their parents. Read the scripture, they hate us because they hate Christ! (John 15:8). Do you at least acknowledge that the truth of the gospel is offensive to sinners? If it isn’t, then how do they know they need to change? If you aren’t challenged and offended by scripture, then how can you come to repentance?
Second, did you actually read the comments by Cathy? If you have, then I don’t know how you could say they were offensive. Here they are:
“The company invests in Christian growth and ministry through its WinShape Foundation (WinShape.com). The name comes from the idea of shaping people to be winners. It began as a college scholarship and expanded to a foster care program, an international ministry, and a conference and retreat center modeled after the Billy Graham Training Center at the Cove. That morphed into a marriage program in conjunction with national marriage ministries,” Cathy added. Some have opposed the company’s support of the traditional family. “Well, guilty as charged,” said Cathy when asked about the company’s position. “We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit. …We are very much committed to that,” Cathy emphasized. “We intend to stay the course,” he said. “We know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles.””
How is that offensive, please tell me? Do you not support the family unit in your ministry? Do you not encourage people to get married and have children? Or do you encourage people to live freely, marry or not marry, have children in and out of wed-lock, and ignore the Biblical directives to live holy lives through marriage? I mean, I really am baffled by how you think this was intended to offend people. Oh wait, its offensive because it “drew a line in the sand”; and is that a bad thing? Don’t you understand, as Christians, we do draw a line in the sand? The Gospel message basically says, “You can either accept Christ’s love or chose to be absent from him and live eternity in Hell.” That is a clear line in the sand! Do you not draw lines in the sand? Then how do you conduct your ministry? Is there something that is absolutely wrong in your theology or does your contempt for sin only come out when you see it in the church?
To leave out sin from the gospel, you are only seeing half the cross. In Matthew 10:34, Jesus says that we can’t expect him to bring peace, but a sword. He’s comes to divide families . . . HE SAID THAT! That’s a definite line in the sand. In fact, please explain to me Jesus and the money changers? Tell me, did Jesus politely ask people to leave the Temple? No, he kicked them out! He made a whip and physically beat them from the premises! Your statement that “That is 1,000% the opposite of the way Jesus models for us” is dead wrong. Jesus unequivocal stand for righteousness at times meant he stood up to bullies. What about the women caught in the act of adultery? A man not given to offense would have not stood up to the self-righteous. Instead, he stood his ground, and literally, drew a line in the sand! (Of course, I don’t know what he actually drew, but I’m sure there was a line there.) I mean, weren’t the Pharisees sinners just as sinful as the adulterous women, and yet he stood up to them, not afraid to offend them in the acknowledgement of truth.
I believe the problem Nathan, is not my attempt to be self-righteous but going to Chick-Fil-A on Aug 1, but your attempt to be self-righteous by preaching without scripture to all us ignorant Christians who you claim have simply spread hate and disenfranchised the gay community. Seriously, you lump yourself in your message as if you were a part of the Chick-Fil-A day, but your arguments are angry and bitter, and you are frustrated with the evangelicals for being so simple minded. Your first post was an attempt to challenge people to look at the day differently, but your post to me, your “Shame on us”, proves you had your mind made up and you were not hear to challenge, but to chastise. You didn’t blog to challenge our thinking, but to preach to us, as the old fire and brimstone pastors did. At least be honest with that; you think all those who showed up at Chick-Fil-A on Aug 1 did wrong. Tell us, use scripture, direct scripture, not some Post-Modern attempt to logically bend our wills towards your viewpoint. Don’t show us how the world sees us; because in the end, how the world sees us, has no barring on how I judge myself. I worry how God sees me. You need to use Scripture; again, you use no scripture in your original post and you didn’t in your reply to me.
Ultimately, Nathan, I think you have a warped gospel, a lot of love, NO JUDGEMENT. It’s all peace love and harmony, some great Woodstock wanna-be faith. Also, if you say that judgment was only Old Testament, how to you process the events in Acts with Ananias and his wife Sapphira? If your only understanding of Christ is as love without anger and judgment, some wimpy guy who never picked a fight; then you are looking on the wrong side of the cross. Jesus gave himself to the cross and turned away from the intense judgment he could have brought. Remember in Hebrews, Jesus is called a priest in the order of Melchizedek, and yet in Genesis, after Abraham tracked done and killed the kings that had kidnapped Lot, the first words out of Melchizedek’s mouth was one of blessing; and yet Abraham had used violence. So how can Jesus, who is only pure Love, be from an order of priests that blessed a violent, but righteous act? How do you reconcile the violent nature of God’s judgment with Christ on the cross? Did he simply take the judgment upon himself and there is now no more judgment? Is hell no longer a reality? Is there sin, and if asked by the world as to the nature of sin, should we play politics and not comment for fear of offending? Or should we acknowledge sin and yet still love the sinner? I don’t understand your faith. Love, judgment, violence, offense . . . you act as those things cannot exist, and yet, they are the very nature of God. Without the Judgment of God for the offense of sin, Christ could not show is Love! Without sin, Christ could not demonstrate his love. It’s because of our sin that he loves us and met a violent end to show us that love. (This is pure Paul and Romans right here Nathan.)
How does this all relate to Chick-Fil-A? Cathy spoke about supporting families, not of degrading or discriminating homosexuals. And yet, when he acknowledge his support for families (Again, I don’t know how you find that offensive unless you are comfortable pandering…) he and his company were unjustly attacked. Should we have let that go? Should we have not stood up to support a brother in the public eye? Should we not have stood up for the acknowledged truth that the Biblical family unit is better than the world believe it is? Instead, many evangelicals stood up. And let me express that it was more than evangelicals, it was non-Christians who acknowledge the unjust attack on Cathy and his company. How can you even attempt to say that Cathy caused this?
As for me, I have challenged my actions with scripture, with the words of the persecuted church, and the martyrs. As I mentioned before, the persecuted church are not afraid of the truth of the gospels and live and die in the animosity of their communities because of their calling sin sin. I don’t believe they run around announcing others sins, as you blog did, but show love. However, when faced with a question of their faith, as Cathy was, they are not afraid to speak it. It seems to me, you would have use lie or politic about the sinfulness of homosexuality rather than admit that the Bible calls it sin; or not acknowledge the positive nature of the Biblical family unit for fear of offending the gay community. Well, Nathan, I can’t do that. If asked, I will tell the truth. The gospel is offensive to sinners and we should not excuse it, apologize for it, or hide it. And when the world attacks the gospel and a fellow Christian for answering a question, I believe very much in a non-violent demonstration of unity.
There’s so much I want to say, but alas, I am writing on a small impression of your theology. I do apologize if I characterize you wrongly, but alas, from your remarks, this is how you come across. I don’t think it wrong to challenge a brother, but I do think it wrong to state a moral absolute as you have so strongly done without scripture. In the end, I don’t believe you were wrong to present your beliefs, but I also don’t agree with them. And there’s the freedom of the Lord; and yet, we can still meet as brothers in the Lord.
Dustin:
First of all, I am not Nathan. I don’t claim to speak for him.
To address your concerns:
1. Of course having gay friends changes our gospel presentation. I’ve found that Evangelicals who actually have close friendships with LBGTQ persons appreciate much more fully how complex and complicated contemporary questions about sexuality and sexual identity are.
I’m grateful to know that your experience with Christians who oppose LGBTQ lifestyle choices has been kind and gracious. As a person who’s grown up and still lives in the Midwest, I can assure you it’s absolutely NOT the case here. Christians here are more often ugly and hateful towards LGBTQ persons and communities than we are loving and kind.
2. More of a side observation: You seem to draw a close parallel between living a LGBTQ lifestyle and eternal damnation. The Scriptures are clear that “being gay” (whatever that means) isn’t the unpardonable sin. A person can wrestle with issues of sexual identity and still be a part of God’s kingdom. THAT is the “line in the sand” to which I refer. Am I misreading you?
3. Alas alas alas alas, you do mischaracterize my theology as “all-love-no-judgement”. At no point did I deny the reality of sin, or even indicate that I do not consider the LGBTQ lifestyle to be sinful. Further, you are moving the discussion away from the issue Nathan brought up in his post.
We are not talking about what Cathy said (whatever problems are there). We are not talking about the non-Christians who participated in CFA Day. We are talking about Christians who flocked to CFA either to 1) defend their freedom of speech from (perceived) attack or 2) make a statement about their support of “biblical” marriage (which is actually 1950s, post-industrial revolution nuclear family… a family in the bible looked very little like the white suburban family unit Cathy and others are so anxious to defend – I will, however, agree that biblical families didn’t include a space for LGBTQ persons either).
4. What IS at stake is how Christians choose to respond to those we perceive as Different/Other/Enemy.
And on CFA Day, many Evangelicals chose to respond not with love, mercy or kindness, but by entreching in our position, shoring up our battlelines and deepening the chasm between Us and Them.
That’s not how Jesus responded to his enemies. Even while we were sinners, Christ died for us. While we were enemies of God.
Where was that self-sacrificial love on CFA Day? Where was the willingness to die for the sinner rather than protect our own rights?
Dustin:
This is a bit lengthy because I trying to respond to your two lengthy comments.
Somehow the point of my blog seems to be distorted a little. My question was “How effective is this?” If one’s goal was to show the country that Christians are unified in standing up for traditional marriage then I would say it was effective. If one’s goal was to say “we have the freedom to say what we wish about marriage and shouldn’t have such a backlash from secular media and politics” then, again, I would say it was effectively demonstrated that you want your rights.
However, if the goal was to point hearts of unbelievers towards Christ for salvation and life (which is a major reason for us still being here (2 Cor. 5:11-21)) then I would argue it was ineffective. The point is actually not about what Cathy did or didn’t say. The point is not about how unfairly he was or wasn’t treated. The point is not even about whether homosexuality is a sin. In my opinion, the point is about how we treat the “other” in our society.
I’m all for discussing Scripture. I realize you don’t know me from Adam but I take Scripture VERY seriously. I believe that the Word of God is authoritative. If you click on my link “What is the Gospel” at the top of my blog site you will see that I am not afraid to talk about sin. I feel like I have a grasp on the gospel. I am sure that I have room to grow and learn but I don’t feel like I am way off base. Not to mention, I did discuss sin in my blog. I stated homosexuality was sinful and dishonoring to God. But again, that’s not really the point.
All the time when Jesus encountered sinners, the unclean, the lepers, the demoniacs, he had compassion. He actually ate with them. He touched them. When they came to him in repentance he forgave them and told them to sin no more. We don’t see him and his disciples lining up outside the pool at Siloam to let all the Lepers know how unclean they are. We see him cleanse them. Even times when he knew they wouldn’t return to worship him he still had compassion on them and “touched” them. He was scandalous; driving the people crazy who had memorized the Word of God.
We don’t see him talking to the woman at the well (John 4), who was adulterous over and over, telling her that she needed to clean her act up if she wants to be accepted. Instead, he gives her himself. Instead, he does the socially unacceptable thing: he talks to an adulterous, Samaritan woman. While the rest of the town treating her like a second-class citizen, the King was offering her living water. He “touches” her and offers her good news.
In Luke 10 there was an exchange between Jesus and a lawyer. Their discussion turns to loving their neighbors and the lawyer “seeking to justify himself asked Jesus, ‘And who is my neighbor?’” Jesus’ reply, through a parable, was that everyone is your neighbor; even a Samaritan. Jesus, a Jew, taught to love the Samaritan. How could this be?
For Christians, everyone is our neighbor. Muslims, Jews and Hindus are our neighbors. Atheists and agnostics are our neighbors. Lesbians and homosexuals are our neighbors. Even Methodists, Baptists and Charismatics are neighbors! I will be the first to tell you that loving my neighbor is a struggle for me on a consistent basis. But I know, ultimately, it’s my calling.
I know you don’t need a sermon and I’m sorry if this comes across that way. I just wanted to honor your request for Scriptural backup for my view.
In the end, CFA Day was an opportunity for Evangelicals to put people ahead of our Constitutional rights. Only we didn’t. But we should have. I don’t believe the showing at CFA was way of loving our neighbors. As JR said, our main right is the “right to die.” When it comes between loving our neighbor and defending our rights I think Jesus would say love your neighbor. Instead, many people isolated, again, the lepers of our day.
I am not naïve to believe that all it takes to see them come to Christ is loving them. I realize that in “loving them” there must be conversations about life offered from Christ to awaken them. And I realize that many will remain hostile to the reality of their need of repentance. But letting them know how wrong it is in the way CFA Day did obviously is not helping either. And it’s safe to say, I believe, it was not modeled for us in Scripture to dig our heels in and show we will not have our rights violated.
Also, I have to say that the idea that Jesus stood up for righteousness to defend CFA day is taking Scripture out of context. Do you really believe that Jesus would have been in line with you that day? Do you believe that the Trinity was high-fiving each other with the showing across the country? If so, so be it. I, personally, do not. As has been mentioned a few times in different comments to defend standing up against sinfulness, Jesus’ clearing of the temple is taken out of context. When Jesus drew a line: clearing the temple, the adulterous woman in John 8, or calling Pharisees a “brood of vipers” it was directed not at the “sinners” but the oppressive leaders of the day; those who looked righteous on the outside but inside were all dirty. Jesus stood against injustice and the oppression of the weak. He stood against blind guides acting as though they had sight. He stood against the manipulation of the poor and stood for the marginalized of the society. He stood against the exploitation going on in the temple. I fail to see any parallel between that and standing up for traditional marriage or standing up for someone’s first amendment rights.
Let me finish by reiterating that my post was to show concern for our approach as Evangelicals on CFA Day, not to judge those who participated. I know many participated for all different reasons. However, as a whole, I don’t believe it was Christ-like. There is more than two ways here. It’s not just “condone the sin and keep our mouths shut” or “stand up for righteousness by letting the gay population know they are sinners.” There is a third way. Instead of isolating them, let’s engage them where they are by entering into relationships, serving them and having truth-telling conversations as God grants us those opportunities. It sounds like you may be doing that yourself in California. Great! Just know that I’m not so sure the majority of American Evangelicals are joining you. Instead, as I have witnessed through social media, many want to “love” homosexuals by condemning their behavior so their blood is not on their hands. Doesn’t look like it’s working.
Finally, I think it’s worth noting that homosexuality is not getting anyone to hell any quicker than disobeying their parents (as you mentioned). Yet, we treat it so differently. We treat them so differently. Homosexuality, ultimately, is not what sends a person to hell just like heterosexuality doesn’t get a person into heaven. It’s all about Jesus. Will we trust him that his completed work was enough or will we continue, as people, in our self-salvation efforts, rejecting the gift of being awoken from spiritual death. That is ultimately what it boils down to. And if that is what it boils down to then, I would say CFA Day was not effective. I guess time will tell.
Thank you for your thoughts. I humbly offer you mine.
Grace and Peace.
Nathan
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I agree (with the writer, not the last two comments). Bottom line: where does it say, anywhere in scripture, that we are to take a stand? Clearly, we are to take a personal stand regarding our faith in Jesus. A Christian in China who is facing prison if he insists on being a Christian, must choose to be true to his faith, for example. But I see nowhere in the bible where we are commanded to show the world what we think about a non-salvation issue. None. In fact, there are several New Testament passages which indicate just the opposite, especially when it comes to persecution.
When Peter was thrown in Jail, for instance, the rest of the new believers weren’t standing outside the jailhouse, demanding justice. They were in a house, praying.
Jesus said, when you are persecuted, pray for your enemy.
What I saw yesterday was a bunch of Christians essentially giving the world the finger. It is not in line with what Jesus has commanded. Not at all.
Middletree,
Christ knocked over the tables, and chased out the moneychangers in the temple. That sounds like a stand to me. Confused how you missed that one.
You said “None” in reference to taking a stand.
I am curious, do you enjoy the liberties you live with here in the USA? Do you believe that our ancestors/”Founding Fathers” were wrong in their rebellion against England? The issues at CFA was not about Christianity, but about the right for a citizen of our great nation to speak freely. It doesn’t go further than that. Christians chastising other Christians for their free speech stance. The “Fathers” were not only rebels but used religious beliefs as a foundation for their indignant response to the atrocities from the King and Parliament.
Do you enjoy your right to say “a bunch of Christians giving the world (interesting that suddenly the entire world is in play) the finger.”? I enjoy your right to be generalistic and ill-logical (again referring to “whole world” comment).
Understand the issue- not Christians attacking gays but Americans supporting the first amendment of the Constitution.
I think the words that hit me the most was do I want people to know where I stand or do I want them to know Jesus. I do believe we have to stand for righteouness. Isaiah is covered in the stand of rigteouness and our prusuit of holiness is a stand on righteouness however, we are of the flesh and we can easily go over the line on self-rightouness so we do need to be in prayer and have Jesus as a example. Jesus never left anyone in their sin. When he dealt with the people, it was always sin no more. Clinging to Jesus helps in that fight. Sanctification is a part of that. I was very careful about what I posted. It was in support of the bibical defination of marriage which is God’s design for mankind. I did get some responses from it. Which was good because it challenges on what you stand for. Do I stand on a firm foundation or people pleasing so I can fill up the seats of the church. Are we guilty of only tickling the ears of what people want to hear. What I find interesting is when any group Christian or non Christian calls for a boycott it hurts the group that calls for the boycott. I think people naturally want to support the underdog. Hopefully christians will learn not to call for a boycott. Appreciated your thoughts and posted it on my wall. I have received many shares from it so I think it reasonated with many.
Reposted! Thanks for expressing so well – followed from Dan!
I believe the main issue is there are people who read and comprehend what God’s word says and there are people who have never opened up His word. These two groups of people I believe will never understand each other. We cannot converse with those who do not know what God says is sin. They are of the world and as true Christ followers we are told we are not of this world. I do fully agree with the fact that we must be concerned first and foremost with each person’s salvation through a relationship with Jesus Christ. Homosexuality is no different than any other sin and should be thought of as such. We need to pray that the scales would be removed from the minds, hearts and eyes of our brothers and sisters who Satan, the deceiver, has hold of. Blessings.
Talk about self-righeous . . .
My thoughts on going to Chick-fil-a were not to say I hate gays, it was to support and defend Dan Cathy’s right to free speech and everyone elses. If the LBGT community takes it as more, it’s sensationalism on their part. There may be some who were there who are haters, but I don’t believe that applies to the majority of participants. We must stand up for our rights or they WILL be taken away from us. It’s wrong and hateful for cities like Boston and Chicago to block the growth of his business because of his beliefs/right to free speech. It would be different if CFA discriminated in their hiring or service policies, but they don’t.
Remember that we follow a guy who didn’t defend his rights, even when it meant that the government crucified him.
Do you have any LGBTQ friends? All of mine took CFA Day as one more giant middle finger from the Evangelical community.
Whether that’s what you meant or not, surely you can’t be ignorant of the fact that that’s how it would be perceived.
So the question comes down to: What’s more important? Defending your own (non-biblical) rights or building relationships with people who are not like you?
The clear biblical answer to that question is always relationships with the Other. That’s the whole point of what Jesus did on the cross: he died for those who were his enemies in order to redeem those enemies.
There was nothing redemptive or healing (for Evangelicalism’s relationship with the LGBTQ community) about CFA Day. Shame on us.
Great thoughts, Nathan.
We must remember that the only right believers are guaranteed is the right to die. Not the right to free speech. Not the right to be right.
God doesn’t call us to defend “traditional” marriage. God can defend Godself.
God calls us to give ourselves up for the good of the Other (even the Gay Other!) the way Jesus gave himself up for us.